On being grown up

[dmaze]

I still haven't really successfully wrapped my brain around this "grown up" concept. There are a lot of bits to this; several of them revolve around money. Maybe I want to buy a car, or a house, at some point, so I should save up for this. But maybe I want to buy some furniture now, so that my bedroom can become less of a pit, and thus enhance my quality of life. Or maybe I want to do things like go on trips to places that are fun, but expensive, and have no long-term redeeming value. All of these are...choices; I have to decide how important (a) is, so I can decide how much money to spend on (b) and what, if anything, is left for (c). There are also lifestyle choices; I eat out a lot, and that's a major source of socialness for me, but it's also expensive and not necessarily healthy.

There's the question of toys. When I was still a grad student, I blew $40 on a copy of Black and White, justifying this by saying it would help preserve my sanity by giving me something to do. The last time I tried to set out a budget, I had an explicit line item for "toys". But I still have a big mental barrier against actually going off and spending money on things; shopping is hard, and I have this vague fear that I'm going to go on a shopping spree and blow everything I have saved up. (Somewhere in here, too, is the realization that I can buy things that aren't necessarily "socially acceptable" and nobody will really care.)

And then there's the relationship question. As much as I hate to admit it, my family isn't necessarily being unreasonable in asking when I'm getting married; this relationship has gone on for quite a long time. Several people I know are at various points in the wedding process, somewhere in between "just engaged" and "been married for several years". Being a not particularly religious person, there's the question of just what marriage is; is there something more than "I promise not to dump you"? Aside from sundry legal bits, does it actually matter?

The future is kind of scary too. I know I don't want to stay at this job forever, and while I have some latitude in looking for something new, I've been afraid to start the job-hunting process. Will I find what I'm looking for, and what exactly is that, anyways? Should I feel guilty about asking for more money than it seems like I need? Will I be able to stay in Boston?

In some ways I feel like I'm lacking direction. But if I had "direction", I'd have a job I felt was more permanent, a solid financial plan, enough money for enough distractions to never be bored, and I suspect more general personal and social clue than anyone really has. I've settled on a couple of things (like lack of grad school) that I know are Decisions that are Right For Me. But trying to Get Everything Together, and still be happy at the end, seems like...if I actually went off and answered all of the Big Questions, then I'd have no chance to adapt to anything and make my life better as things changed.

Comments

[ukelele.livejournal.com]

I can give you ukelele's perspective on marriage, but it's a bit nontraditional, seeing as I think marriage should be abolished and all.

Anyway, there are five key elements of marriage, as I see it:

Legal: this can be darn handy. It's a tax break for us, though it would probably be a tax hit for you (it depends on the income disparity between partners, as it's based on a 1950s sort of model, albeit gender-blind). But there are more universally useful things, like shared health care, and the ability to see/make decisions for a loved one in the hospital, inherit a shared house tax-free, use Social Security benefits. Admittedly, most of these things are unlikely to matter for a while. And, of course, the legal benefits of marriage are unavailable to many of our friends, which some people take as a philosophical reason to not get married. (I'd feel more guilty about this myself if I didn't like extorting tax breaks from the government.)

Religious: Yeah, it matters or it doesn't. For me, "doesn't."

Societal: Some usually inoffensive and even useful things, like "people assume you're going to stay together." Some things I found tremendously stressful -- "everyone has their own assumptions about marriage and they impose those on you whether you like it or not." People become very interested in hearing about your wedding. People may ask when (not generally "if", I'm afraid, but "when") you're buying a house and having kids. Some people will make assumptions about her last name. But mostly, they have their mental images of married people and assume you fit them now. People who aren't me, and don't have my unusual relationship history and tremendously defiant ideas about love, may find this less stressful than I did.

Familial: In some ways, this is like societal, but on a smaller scale and less offensive because the people often know you personally and can have their opinions melded to your example. Of course, they can also guilt trip you better ;). In some ways, this is a part of marriage I actually like -- the part where you take bits of preexisting families and combine them to make a totally new family. I like families. I think this part is neat.

Personal: People's personal reactions to marriage vary a great deal. In my opinion, this is far and away the most important part of things, and it existed long before the wedding. Probably more on this than I can say here, especially given the breezy tone I've set up. At the same time, the thing I can comment on least usefully, as it's one of those "look inside your own heart" things.

For me, the legal benefits were the major impetus, since I'd made the commitment...well, at various points, but certainly it had become unavoidable by November of '98...it was there for us and I'm not sure how much need I would have had to externalize it without those financial and logistical benefits. Certainly, knowing what I know now (ie that I'm allergic to the weight of social expectations in this connection), I would not have done it except for the legal benefits. But you aren't me and may attach different weights to these categories.

[jadia.livejournal.com]

On marriage: I think making that commitment to be with the other person forever is significant. In my mind, that's the major difference between long-term relationship and marriage.

On family and marriage: The advantage of having a s.o. that one's family doesn't like is that they never ask you the marriage question. ;)

On money: You shouldn't feel guilty about asking for a lot of money. I mean, you say you want to buy a house; that's Expensive. Also, the company will pay you how much they think you are worth, so you should hope that it is a lot.

On direction: I don't feel like I lack direction, yet I think objectively I don't know more than you. Though maybe it's simply that my short-term goals are well-defined and that's "direction" enough for me. Well, and my long-term goals are nebulously defined.

[jadia.livejournal.com]

Why do you think marriage should be abolished?

[ukelele.livejournal.com]

I feel that the legal institution of marriage should be abolished because the actual relationships that actual humans set up for themselves are far more complex and varied than the law can ever hope to encompass; as long as we have a legal institution of marriage, we will always be discriminating against people who love each other. By all means let's keep some of the legal relationships that are handy to have (such as medical decisionmaking), and by all means let's have the relationships we keep available as a package deal to those who want to run their lives that way, but let's treat them as contracts between adults, and allow anyone capable of making legal contracts to enter into them as they choose -- and treat adults as individuals before the law. Also, because I feel that law and love have nothing to do with one another, and that it's tremendously patronizing of the government to believe it can say "yes, well, you two spent time together before, but now it's real." Real is like the Velveteen rabbit showed -- something people make in their hearts, untouchable by such institutions. I abhor any belief that government sanction can make my love more complete, enduring, or adult than it already was, and yet, given how legal sanction is woven into ceremony, and how the social netherworld inhabited by long-term gay couples demonstrates the importance we place on the legal aspect...that belief is too widely held.

The religious aspect should be allowed to do whatever respective denominations see fit, of course. And the remaining aspects are, practically speaking, unabolishable, and I'm fine with that, though I would like to see a broader range of relationships better established in the mainstream so that people are less able to make assumptions.

my $0.02

[(Anonymous)]

Having thought a bit on these issues myself, dear pledge sib, here's my opinion on some of them, with no expectation whatsoever of these POVs being the right ones for you:

"direction"/job: I think at our age, if you are still unmarried and not yet ready to "settle down", having a non-permanent job is a fine thing. Being financially insecure is bad, but not knowing where you'll be working next year doesn't seem like something to worry about, as long as you think you have the skills to continue doing jobs you want to. jump around, do different interesting things, see the world. as for solid financial plan, as long as you are making some and (knowing you) actually investing some, and thinking about what you might do with it like 6 months from now, you're probably ok for your point in life.

money: the world economy is really imperfect. The best thing you can do is take as much money out of its imperfect control as you can convince it to give you, and then reallocate it using your own greater wisdom. Ask for what you think you're worth in the current market, as in what a typical company of that sort would pay someone who could do what you do, as well as you do. If you really don't want that much money, not even to just give away to good causes or (wink) needy friends, then my personal suggestion is to work something out where you work less and have more free time.

house: this is my lifelong dream. Never have to move again! booyeah! I'd say once you've found a place you know you'd like to "settle down" then go for it as soon as your are financially able - paying rent is like throwing money out the window. throw parties. Build a model railroad in the basement that connects to the backyard. Whee! It's a royal pain in the ass to upkeep though, and way to big for me at least to justify 1 person living in though, so those are other things that would make me wait.

Toys: my philosophy on most forms of entertainment is I am paying $x per hour to be entertained. Once I work out how many free hours I have to spend on being entertained, I realize I have little to worry about as long as I choose somewhat carefully what I spend on using this metric, and don't buy more stuff than I have time to play with. Once you get older and have a higher-paying job, people tend to pay ridiculously higher amounts of money for toys that they spend less time playing with...we'll see if it happens to me...but I believe as long as you keep track of your free time and don't overspend *that*, you're probably fine.

mawwiage: that dweam, within, a dweam...do it if you want to man. Try not to let societal forces influence your decision too much. Do let your SO influence your decision a lot.
-mo

Megan's Definition of Marriage

[(Anonymous)]

My definition of marriage: (which only covers Ukelele's personal level, and to my mind is completely replaceable with terms like "lifetime committment" or some such)

[I will note that I didn't figure this definition out until I'd been married for several years, but luckily my husband shares the definition.]

People change. This is to be expected, but it doesn't happen quickly. It takes years; decades for significant changes.

When I decided to get married I decided that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with my husband, whatever kind of person he turns into. I therefore make a committment to him to only change into the sort of person that he can spend his life with, and he makes the same committment to me. Therefore it behooved me to choose to marry someone who brings out the best in me, so that I can make changes for the better and still fit into his life.

Yes, this is a limitation. There are things I will never do because I am married to my husband. There are things he will never do because he is married to me. But I do not view it as a sacrifice.

Life choices bring limitations. When I choose to live in one place I choose not to live somewhere else. When I choose to study one field I choose not to study others. When I choose to grow in ways that let me stay married, I choose not to grow in other ways. For me these limitations are worth it because of the depth of what remains.


- Megan (76Trombone's landlord)
Hmm, if I had an LJ account I could have a friends list and would be more punctual with my posts...